1/28/92 10:04:59 PM Opening "MED Chat 1/28/92" for recording.
AFA LindaS : Our chat tonight is about computer piracy
Andy Rezin : Oh well, I was looking for someone interested in
early childhood software. Sorry I interrupted
AFL Cheryl : Was there something in particular, Andy??
AFA LindaS : Hello Jane welcome to the chat
GA JANE : Hello!
Andy Rezin : Yes, I've got a 4 year old and am looking for Mac
titles similar to McGee that are syst.7 compatible
AFL Cheryl : Andy...try Kid Pix...KidsTime from Great Wave Software
my daughter's been playing with KidsTime for a couple
of years...and she still likes it (at age 6)
Andy Rezin : It's the best title and about the only one he loves
but I'm looking for animated programs
AFL Cheryl : KidPix is great....lots of fun (for ANY age) :)
Try "The Playroom" from Broderbund....animation,
sounds, almost anywhere you can click brings an
action or sound or something....
Andy Rezin : Thanks for the tip on KidsTime,Cheryl. KidPix is a
good idea and I'll check out Playroom, any more?
GA JANE : I have used the Playroom in K classes
AFL Cheryl : Alphabet Blocks is great (but not Sys 7 (yet?))
AFL Cheryl : Hi Jim.....welcome to the chat :)
IPRiser : Hi Cheryl :)
AFL Cheryl : Also, Andy...the Inigo series of HyperCard stacks...
encourages your child to explore, and has many actions...
there's one 'sample' in the library here, the rest
are commercial.
Andy Rezin : You've been lots of help. This is my first time on
chat but I'm sure I'll be back.BYE!!
AFL Cheryl : Andy, the Inigo is called "Inigo Gets Out"
IPRiser : Is tonight copyright night?
AFL Cheryl : Well, Jim....just you and I...what would you like to
chat about??
AFL Cheryl : Yes...that was the scheduled topic....but if it's
just the 2 of us, we can discuss anything
IPRiser : I received a new color MacVision the other day - "tis
great!!
AFL Cheryl : Ahhh....I've gotten 2 flyers about vers 4.0, and the
color digitizer...can't justify it in my work tho
IPRiser : My wife might start teaching Lang arts/sci (6th grade
level) - any software suggestions from the library?
AFL Cheryl : 6 grade....gee...I don't even know what the 6th grade
curriculum usually consists of!!
IPRiser : It was advertised as just sci - but spies told me
about the L.A.
AFL Cheryl : that's sneaky!!
IPRiser : I am not going to tie up your time-I'm going software
hunting.Thanks again for your help on replacing the Global
Warming stack. See ya.
AFL Cheryl : no problem, Jim!!
AFL Cheryl : hi One...welcome...
AFL Cheryl : Tonite's scheduled topic is "Software Piracy - How
Legal Are You?"
OneOther : Since there's just the two of us here, can we talk
about something else?
AFL Cheryl : Do you have something you'd like to discuss?
OneOther : Yes, I'm interested in getting info about what's
going on regarding the use of educ. sftwre
I'm sorry for the slow transmission. I'm having a
pblm with my modem tonight.
AFL Cheryl : can you be more specific??? Use of educational
software how?? Where?? "Drill" software?? What??
OneOther : A good source of info about the extent schools are
using it now?
AFL Cheryl : How do YOU define 'educational software'??
Schools to use computers to varying degrees...from
completely integrated in the curriculum, to
barely using it, just for 'keyboarding' or
occassional 'drill & practice' stuff.
OneOther : Good question. Are there useful tools that address
students' attitudes toward learning and the subject
I think the Mac in particular could address, ie,
resist the drill stuff of school with good sftwre
AFL Cheryl : One method stresses creative problem-solving, using
only basic 'tools' (ie: word processor & paint
program), and students create essays, reports, things
like that.
Many schools DO avoid the 'drill' stuff, by stressing
problem-solving....
nowadays, many schools are using or moving to "whole
language" in the classroom...rather than having
specific 'reading' or 'writing' or vocabulary
lessons...it's integrated within all other areas of
the curriculum...which is good, as far as I'm
concerned...my daughter's school is doing this.
OneOther : What are the benefits?
AFL Cheryl : in my view....increased reading and writing time,
more time spent on the other subject areas as well,
since you're not taking specific time for
vocabulary/spelling, reading, writing...
I would like to start my daughter soon on doing
stories on the computer that she can then illustrate
herself, with a painting program.
She loves making up stories, and is pretty good at
doing it on the fly :)
AFL Cheryl : Hi Kaci...welcome to tonite's chat.
the scheduled topic "Software Piracy - How Legal Are You?"
OneOther : How old is your daughter? In what grade? Mine is in
grade 4.
AFL Cheryl : Tho we're currently discussing computers in education
(educational software) Mine is in 1st grade...she's 6
Kaci ducky : daughter 5th grade son 8th
AFL Cheryl : my assistant here (she's under the weather tonite)
teaches 4th grade...she uses whole language in her
classroom,and it works well....she also is involved
in a special project, where each student in 4,5,6
grades have a Mac at home to use for the school year,
with printer...they also use Macs in the class
in addition, the school has a 'computer club' for the
students who are really into it.
Kaci ducky : what is whole language educationally speaking??
AFL Cheryl : Kaci, Whole Language is the integration of language
(reading/writing/vocabulary/etc) into all areas of
the curriculum.
OneOther : My daugher's school barely uses computers. She joined
a club and they meet once a week.
Kaci ducky : my kid's school's just starting a prog on apple gs's
where are you in the suburbs??
Kaci ducky : but what does that mean...no more...um/.. spelling tests work books, multi guess tests??
AFL Cheryl : well, you don't need to set aside special spelling
books, time for vocabulary lessons, stuff like that
those lessons come from all the other subject areas.
ie: social studies/current events...have students
AFL Cheryl : that are new...take spelling words from there....
write a story about something they read in teh
paper...read an article from local newspaper, discuss words
Kaci ducky : umm...so its not all..studying for reading tests
OneOther : How does she like it?
Kaci ducky : oh instead of syllabus words
AFL Cheryl : remember the 'Jessica McClure' story a few years
ago?? The kid that fell down the well in Texas??
Linda's students wrote their own stories explaining
what happened...and illustrated usually showing
a rough picture of a well-hole with a person trapped.
Kaci ducky : my kids school was steeped in writing process...
which had its good points but was not always exicuted
adequately.
AFL Cheryl : My daughter's class is already into it...she's in
first grade...they read a book each night (short
book) and write down the title, author, and a line or
2 about the story. Gives them reading, writing, spelling, penmanship (which is not emphasized enough these days.
Kaci ducky : you mean like logs
AFL Cheryl : yes, like a log...
Kaci ducky : reading logs
AFL Cheryl : they also have a journal notebook that they're
encouraged to draw in, write things....
Kaci ducky : problem is alot of times they never get to finnished
formate...through jr high.
OneOther : Do they do these things on their computers?
Kaci ducky : i'm afraid of fads
AFL Cheryl : what do you call finished format??
Kaci ducky : not in out school
Kaci ducky : lookin' up correct spelling...like it never matters
AFL Cheryl : I wouldn' consider 'whole language' to be a fad
Kaci ducky : but implimentation often is
AFL Cheryl : in my daughter's school, they do allow (encourage)
the students to do their own spelling, however
'creative' it might be...but it's part of the
exploration process, in fact,
Kaci ducky : the new principal we have is into whole language ..
i'm tryin t'get a handle on what it is.
AFL Cheryl : I was against it in the beginning, because my
daughter, for example, can be very strong-willed, and
if she believes that 'sower' is the correct way to spell
"sour", you'll never convince her otherwise!!
Kaci ducky : my point is that often the student loose site of the
importance of ever getting the words and form right
AFL Cheryl : it is no more a 'fad' than the 'new math' was years ago.
Kaci ducky : it tends to happen in the upper grades.
AFL Cheryl : was that sentence supposed to be an example?? :)
Kaci ducky : nope speed ritin'
AFL Cheryl : Whole language does not emphasize the process at the
expense of the 'goal' but rather integrates what
is, in fact, something that does indeed permeate our
whole existence...language is how we communicate
whether by spoken word, reading, writing, etc...
I even encourage other forms of communication, such
as sign language. In fact, it was using sign lang
that I finally got my daughter to remember how to
spell her last name (not easy for a 5-year-old at t
the time. The concept IS excellent, and the implementation does vary... I am learning more about it every day, as I watch what the local school is doing....what works, what
doesn't.
Kaci ducky : i just find implimentation is tricky tho the concept
is excellent
AFL Cheryl : Welcome Sherry...join in :)
AFL Cheryl : Our scheduled topic tonite was "Software Piracy - How
Legal Are You?"
AFL Cheryl : but since these folks wanted to discuss educational
software, that's what we're doing :0
AFL Cheryl : :)
Sherry92 : Hi, Cheryl, thanks...This is my first time on this
forum
Kaci ducky : mine too or on this system
OneOther : Me too!
Sherry92 : I teach elementary school - what's this about
Piracy??? Who doesn't?
AFL Cheryl : I noticed, Kaci...today's your first day!!!
AFL Cheryl : Sherry...does that make it ok??
Kaci ducky : ahhh research
AFL Cheryl : yes, it's called "Get Info" :)
Sherry92 : No - but funds are short, you pay when you can
Kaci ducky : nod
Kaci ducky : Sherry u use computers?
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, the software writers/publishers say the same
thing...and if they can't get their earnings,
they will stop writing software.
Sherry92 : Yes, but I just bought this modem this weekend, It's
fun
AFL Cheryl : In fact, software piracy in the schools IS rampant,
and is very often 'overlooked' by the schools
Sherry92 : You are right! I think they out to offer reduced
rates to Educators. We are free publicity.
Kaci ducky : as is xeroxing workbooks
AFL Cheryl : One local school district has maybe 2 copies of
AppleWorks (maybe I'm being generous saying 2
copies?) Yet every teacher in the district who asks, gets
AppleWorks. Is this fair to the companies??
Sherry92 : My district is very careful about Piracy, as we work
within 20 miles of Apple in Cupertine
Kaci ducky : ha
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, many companies DO offer reduced rates to
educators, to schools, etc...and STILL schools copy
many offer 'lab packs'...which usually have 5-10
disks per package, intended for use on many computers
Kaci ducky : i think its different with in a school and within a
district
Sherry92 : Yes, that is true....it is not a good example is it?
I don't copy software for the school, I am not always honest about "borrowing" people's software to "try it out"
Studio etc : Are we limiting this to just Educational Discussions??
OneOther : Must go. Nice chatting with you. Bye.
AFL Cheryl : Thanks for coming, One...do come back!!
AFL Cheryl : Next week is open topic nite :)
AFL Cheryl : Studio, this is the Mac Education Chat...we meet
every Tuesday night at 10pm ET....
AFL Cheryl : Was there something you had on your mind, Studio??
Sherry92 : Cheryl: Are you a kind of "guide" or facilitator of
this forum?
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, I am AFL = America Online Forum Leader
I run the Mac Education Forum here...
Studio etc : Just thinking of the wars I wage at my place of
employment about piracy!
Sherry92 : Cheryl -What is that?
AFL Cheryl : I also run the TIN area (Teacher's Information
Network) online here.
AFL Cheryl : what is what, the Mac Education Forum??
Kaci ducky : what kinda stuff is in tin?/
Sherry92 : Are you hired by AOL or Apple to do this, or is it
voluntary? I'm questioning your allegience.
AFL Cheryl : How did you happen to enter this chat room?? Via Mac
Education, or Teacher Information Network??
AFL Cheryl : Allegience?????? To whom, or what???
Kaci ducky : me...mac ed
Sherry92 : On AOL - TIN I didn't know anything about Mac Info
AFL Cheryl : Kaci, TIN has much information geared specifically to
teachers, including lesson plans, etc...
Kaci ducky : i an interested in science stuff
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, I have much experience/background in
telecommunications, and I am not an employee of Apple nor of America Online.
Sherry92 : I am quite curious....Do you get paid to do this?
Who pays you -
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, I am contracted with America Online, the
views I present are my own, and I do not understand
AFL Cheryl : what it is that you're questioning....
do you think I'm gonna turn you all in for piracy??
Hardly....this is purely in info chat, not a bust.
Kaci ducky : i've taught jr sci but presently interested in elem
sci
AFL Cheryl : Kaci, you'll find that sort of stuff there, too, as
well as in this forum.
Sherry92 : Cheryl - are you a teacher, or do you have an
education background?
AFL Cheryl : I have a background in education...
Sherry92 : No - I'm not worried, I just like to know from whom I
am getting information, and how valid it is
AFL Cheryl : I have taught in the past, I have a background in
computers and education, and do work as an
educational consultant.
Sherry92 : Great! That answers my questions! Sorry to be so
questioning
AFL Cheryl : Studio, on the subject of piracy in companies, it is
rampant there, too, tho many companies forbid it
and enforce the prohibition.
AFL Cheryl : I am not a classroom teacher, if that's what you're
asking.
Sherry92 : Cheryl: About the Mac Forum - where can I connect to
it? I love this machine
AFL Cheryl : What prompted you to ask?? Were my
comments/observations faulty??
Mac Education Forum...keyword MED or MAC EDUCATION
There you will find a message board area, software
libraries with over 1300 files, this chat room...and some other neat stuff :)
Sherry92 : No your comments/observations were not faulty. I am
just suspicious by nature....
AFL Cheryl : Hi Ezra :)
Kaci ducky : oh your a gemini too
AFL Cheryl : Welcome to our chat tonite...
AFL Cheryl : Yes. So...where were we???...
AFL Cheryl : Are we back to piracy?? Or all the way back to
education software??
Kaci ducky : Cheryl are you working with any school district?? In nyc
AFL Cheryl : I work with a couple of individual schools, when I
can...I do observe classrooms in action...and
monitor what's new in the classroom no, not in NYC...
Kaci ducky : i wondered
Sherry92 : Cherly: I still don't get how to get to the MAC
forum. Is it under Educator's? help
AFL Cheryl : Sherry...how did you get to TIN?? via Learning &
Reference??
Sherry92 : yes
AFL Cheryl : If you're using the DEPARTMENTS window, select
COMPUTING & SOFTWARE.
AFL Cheryl : If you want to get here fastest, use a 'Keyword'
(press COMMAND-K, and type the necessary keyword in
the box and press return) the keyword to get here fastest is MED (for Mac EDucation)
AFL Cheryl : Try it now...hold the command key, and press K
you'll see a small 'keyword' window come up... type in
MED and press return... you'll get a new window, showing the "Education Forum"...there will be an icon that says "Conference Room" click on that....it will take you into this room again (you won't actually LEAVE this room unless you close the window. Got it??
Sherry92 : Cheryl: Wow, I did it and got it! Thanks! There
is so much to learn here. thanks!!!!
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, yes, there's LOTs in this forum (MED)...zillions
of education files, discussions, and more :)
AFL Cheryl : Kaci, you're one of the few who assume that I am in
the suburbs, rather than in the city...most see 'New York' and assume city, not state :)
Kaci ducky : ha caught that...computers...money equiptment
Kaci ducky : so where are ya??
Sherry92 : Cheryl, are you from NY? I grew up in Lockport
AFL Cheryl : caught what???
Kaci ducky : suburban comment thought it got lost in shuffle
AFL Cheryl : I grew up in the Bronx, now live in the 'burbs
Sherry92 : Lockport is right outside of Buffalo
AFL Cheryl : yes, I catch most things :)
Kaci ducky : here---->>man.. spent three yrs in bronx
AFL Cheryl : I've been to Buffalo only once (I think I've been to
Buffalo....if I drive from Niagara to NYC???)
Sherry92 : Well, back to computers in Education - our district
is now slowly changing in the IIes for Macs!!
Our district office, school office now have MACS. We
have 10 Macs in the classrooms -thanks to Safewa
Kaci ducky : what available for gs?? these days ..much???
AFL Cheryl : Kaci, unfortunately, the GS market is dying...and
it's being perpetuated by both Apple and the software
companies...companies won't support software
development for new programs if Apple isn't pushing
the machine to the customer...and Apple can't justify
pushing...customers won't buy if there isn't lots of
software.. it's a circle.
Sherry92 : Our "Business in Partners" is Apple, and they have
ben supporting us in this move, but not much
Our school computer lab hopes to be all MACS within 3
years Cheryl - that is true!!! I've met with some
"educational reps"from App and discussed this issue
Kaci ducky : i think thats what our school jus' pulled t'gether
we're out dated before we start.
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, getting companies to work with the schools is
a boon...and the companies have to realize that
they should contribute...their future employee pool
depends on education now!!
Sherry92 : Your are right! I've sold the MAC to my students by
using my own at school.
Sherry92 : My parents are screaming for educational software for
their kids to use. Let's write some!
AFL Cheryl : Sherry...."HyperCard, programming for the rest of us"
AFL Cheryl : You can create your own stacks, whether activities,
or informational, or whatever...
AFL Cheryl : or, better yet, get your students to create the
stacks.
Sherry92 : Hypercard - too hard for fourth graders to use.
It could be made easier
AFL Cheryl : My assistant, Linda, uses HyperCard with her 4th
graders, at the end of the regular school year.
She teaches a 2-week 'summer session' with volunteer
students (they volunteer for THIS summer school!)
Kaci ducky : hmmm..still wonderin' whether to spend time playin'
with hypercard.
Sherry92 : Really???? I'd love to see an example of that
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, look in the MED libraries (use the SEARCH
SOFTWARE LIBRARIES icon in MED), and search for
FUQUA (which is the nameo f the school Linda teaches
at).. one of the best is called "SOLAR SYSTEM STACK"
another is called PRESIDENTS download those 2, and get an idea of what 9-10 year olds are doing.
Sherry92 : Why can't Apple create a lesson plan for teachers to
use in their classroom using Hypercard
Kaci ducky : assistant from online or off?
AFL Cheryl : Assistant online...
Kaci ducky : mmm solar system.
AFL Cheryl : she would be here, except she isn't feeling well, I
made her sign off to get some rest.
AFL Cheryl : Sherry, Apple isn't into education THAT much (to be
creating lesson plans).
AFL Cheryl : Create your own lesson plans...create your own
lessons.....create your own HyperCard stacks.
Kaci ducky : what do you need to decompress downloaded files?
Sherry92 : They should be - I've been thinking of approaching
them on this - they are missing a market
Kaci ducky : yr sold on hyper stack...seems t'me.
AFL Cheryl : Kaci, on the disk your America Online software came
on, is "StuffIt"...it's a compression/decompression
program...ALL files are decompressable with this, or
are 'self-decompressing' (by just clicking on it)
Kaci ducky : ok
Kaci ducky : i'm getting totally confused...on what i saw where.
AFL Cheryl : Kaci, HyperCard is a 'toolkit'...a big pile of
modeling clay...you can mold to do virtually whatever
you want....
Sherry92 : I'm going to sign off - I've learned a lot - thank
you Cheryl!!!!! You're great!
AFL Cheryl : in fact, I used HyperCard to create a small stack to
do some text processing of files that I create
monthly....saves MANY hours of manual processing of
the text. and I don't have to sit there!!) :)
Kaci ducky : sigh...everything gets so time consuming.
AFL Cheryl : took 2-3 days of intensive time to edit
before...takes 2-3 hours for HyperCard stack I wrote,
Kaci ducky : yeah i always think hyper card is more how i think.
AFL Cheryl : I was SO proud of myself, it was the first stack I'd
created that DID something that functional :)it's not as hard as some think.
Kaci ducky : not hard just time consuming...
AFL Cheryl : I must have spent 16-20 hours DEBUGGING that stack,
but I would have spent more time than that editing
that months' textfile....and I've saved mounds of
time since then!!
AFL Cheryl : In fact, my assistant (Linda) teaches a course online
here, "HyperCard for Educators"..basically, the basics of HyperCard, and how to teach it to young children....
Kaci ducky : i first have to pull my classic apart and add some new
memory
AFL Cheryl : do it...never have too much RAM :)
Kaci ducky : thats my main stumbling block now
AFL Cheryl : well, the Classic ships with 2 megs (now 4 megs), but
that lets you run really one application
Kaci ducky : i hafta get it apart...thats actually why i hooked up
t'nite. i have one meg...basic cheap
AFL Cheryl : taking it apart isn't difficult, you just need the
right tools.....
Kaci ducky : i have the screw driver.
AFL Cheryl : I do believe the case is essentially the same as a
Mac Plus or SE...you need a torx screwdriver (long
Kaci ducky : whatever..bolt twister.
Kaci ducky : torx
Kaci ducky : like torque
AFL Cheryl : one) and a 'cracker'...case cracker...
Kaci ducky : yeah i didnt get that.
AFL Cheryl : it's a flat nose, with a grip, and as you squeeze the
grip (handle), it opens the nose (which you've
placed in the 'slot' (seam) of the case in a couple
of places (one place at a time) :) there should be a 'seam'....
Kaci ducky : is there a specific place you're suppose to crack the
case? right like ...pry it open gently around the case???
AFL Cheryl : (I have NOT examined the case of the Classic too
extensively) right....about an inch or so behind the face (front) of the case
Kaci ducky : i understand.
Kaci ducky : yes i was headed in the right direction but feared
juggling it.
AFL Cheryl : I hope so.....YOU have the Classic right there to
